Monday, November 28, 2005

Darwinian theory: Natural selection?

There is that classical arguement, are we a product of our environment (nuture) or are we born with the abilities that we possess today (nature)? The issue I want to discuss today is with the amount of Asians in selective high schools. I've cut and pasted the main parts of the article.

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Sweeping Chinese revolution

By Linda Doherty, Education Editor
SMH
November 26, 2005

THE immigration success story continues apace, with students of Chinese background securing one third of the places in Sydney's selective academic schools.

Nine out of 10 students at James Ruse Agricultural High School - NSW's top-performing school - have a non-English-speaking background, predominantly Chinese, Vietnamese and Korean language groups.

Across the city, students from a migrant background - mainly from Asia - account for two-thirds of enrolments in selective schools, or 9451 out of 14,300 students.

The Herald has analysed the cultural mix of students in the 19 fully selective state schools using NSW Education Department data obtained under the Freedom of Information Act. More than 5000 of the 16,000 selective school students say they have a Chinese-speaking heritage and all but 100 of those students live in Sydney, where 4.9 per cent of the population speaks a Chinese language. The next largest language groups are Korean (601 students), Vietnamese (528).

The dominance of students from non-English-speaking backgrounds ranges from 92.3 per cent of enrolments at James Ruse and 83.6 per cent at Sydney Boys High.

Lynne Irving, the principal of Sydney Technical High at Bexley, said her school represented the changing demographic. "We reflect what the community looks like," she said. "Irrespective of the national background, the students all have a very high work ethic and they're very well supported by their parents."

Author Don Aitkin said the performance of many students from Asian backgrounds followed the success enjoyed by previous waves of migrant children. "It's in effect a parental sacrifice in the interests of the child," he said.
The migrant parents would typically "work their butts off" so their children could get a good education. The children were aware of this and would often forgo "present gratification" like going to the beach to study hard

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I think this article and the comments made are totally correct. Migrant parents do sacrifice everything to ensure their kids got the best education. My parents were exactly the same. Secretly, I think they wanted me to be everything they couldn't be - upperclass, rich, white collar professional. I will never forget the struggles that my parents went through to put me where I am today.

I think I had no choice but to be successful, and I'm not saying that I'm good. Just that I graduated highschool, went to uni, did law and got a job at big company. And to them, that is success because they never went through that whole process. My mum still tells me she arrived in this country with $500 in her pocket and nothing but a hope for a better life. Asian parents push their kids so hard because they simply want the best for us.

One thing that this article misses, is that Asians aren't necessarily smarter. Being bright is not the reason that they get into selective school. It's a tough call for me to make as an Asian. On the one hand, I feel that Asians are smart. But why is that? - Is it nature or nurture? I think most of us Asians got into selective school because:

1) we were bright
2) we had coaching
3) our parents pushed us so hard and sacrificed a lot to ensure we got in

You combine those 3 factors and you've going to take the place of for say (and I'm generalisng here) an Australian person who is naturally bright but might not have had factor 2 and 3 - there is the exception: see Tim and Ashby. That is why 33% of students are Asian.

To many Asian parents selective high school was the be all or end all. If they couldn't get in, they had to go to a public high school and they couldn't settle for that. That would mean failure. My parents couldn't afford a really good private high school, but I'm sure they would have done sacrificed everything financally to make sure I got in to one.

So what is it Nature or Nuture for Asians in selective high schools? I say both, although a lot of "nuturing/pushing/sacrificing" from my parents.

Interesting side note

It never became more apparent to me how important it was to go to a good high school when two years ago I had interviews for internships. I had several interviews and one was @ Proctor & Gamble. I walk in, and the manager looks @ my resume and goes "Oh, you went to Sydney Tech?.....You know Ms Berios was a b*tch". Firstly, I was stunned, then laughed and nodded my head in agreement. What was I supposed to do? I did get a job with them, and probably did help that he was a former Tech.

Next up was an interview @ Big 4 Accounting firm. Again, Partner looks at my resume and goes "I'm an old boy from tech. I organised our 50th reunion with your new principal......Ms Irvine". Didn't get a job with them, but still, that old schoolboy connection was strong.

During my internship, I went to a client meeting. I'm sitting at their board room, minding my own business while the client chats away with my boss. Suddenly, the client wants to talk to me and asks me what High School I went too. I mumble "Sydney Tech. Its in Bexley." He gives me this scrunched up face look and smiles and repeats that all too farmiliar line "Your're looking at an Old Boy. Class of 1960........ Is Mr Booth still there?".

I'm out like Ashby from Australia,

DJ Ho.

p.s. Did you spot the Ms Irvine, Sydney Tech comment? Represent!

7 comments:

Anonymous said...

They called her "IrvinG" though. Mrs Dr J maybe?
Yeah, I don't think asians are genetically smarter, they are just raised in an environment where academic success is placed above pretty much everything else.
While I respect hard work and success that is achieved as a result of it, I do have problems with the fact that kids are coached for selective schools tests rather than getting in on their own merits (i.e. their raw natural intelligence).
When I was in primary school, I didn't know what study was. I never did it. I just did my homework, played sports, read some books and mostly watched a lot of TV. I just showed up for the test and gave it a shot, and I did well enought to get in.
I wonder if I would get in to Tech now if I was in year 6 doing the test again, competing against a whole lot more kids who have paid for an unfair advantage against me.

I would rather send my kids to a public school than a private school, but I don't like the thought of having to get my kids coaching in primary school just to get them on a level playing field for a shot at a selective school.

Anonymous said...

Hey,
I’ve never posted on your blog before, but I think it’s pretty obvious that it’s not genetic, but cultural. East Asian/Oriental culture is very driven to succeed and well, make money.

Your post points out that a lot of it is attributed to the ‘migrant experience’. I disagree. Look at our cousins in Hong Kong – Wei Ho, Wei Hong etc. Their parents push them even harder than our parents pushed us. Talk to overseas students from Asia and many of them will tell you how competitive it is back home. Look at it a different way – back in the 1950s, South Korea and Taiwan were as poor as South Africa and Bangladesh. South Korea’s per capita GDP is now 35 times that of Bangladesh’s.

I guess my point is that its purely a cultural thing and not because we all migrated here. The thing I do want to ask is – how problematic is it if 60% of James Ruse students are Chinese or if one-third of selective students are Chinese? I don’t think its racist or anything to point out that those numbers are somewhat dysfunctional.

Oh, and bro, I read your post about Michelle Leslie as well. I think everyone should stop being so judgemental. If I had to use a squat toilet with no flush for 3 straight months or sleep in a room with a dozen other people while cockroaches ran around on the floor, I would’ve grown a beard, praised Allah and shouted ‘death to America’ to get out of there.

Student154 said...

At our old office, there were two old boys from the ajoining company... class of 1980 and class of 1989...

everywhere I go, there seems to be a tech, one of my collegue's her boyfriend was a techie...

chrome said...

Mr Booth still there for real? He'ld be a dinosaur

Alumni till i die!

DJ Ho said...

Tim - i think the selective schools are in a tough position. they need some basis, some kind of intelligence test, but the Asians are just manipulating it - just look at the explosion of coaching schools. Its a catch 22 situation. I agree that it should be down to natural raw intelligence but this is also filtering down to HSC as well as many students (including myself and you) had coaching.

Bro - You crack me up. I bet you wouldn't have even spent a minute in an Indonesian jail - you would have chucked a Rene Rivkin and claimed mental illness.

You raise a valid point but I think your forgetting one thing. Korea & taiwan's growth had a lot to do with FDI - foriegn direct investment by America which contributed to their phenomenal growth.

Bosco - Tech run this town!

Obi - no, he retired in my second last year of high school. Boothy taught there for like 40 years and he never took a day off - he was an institution.

Student154 said...

Haha... man, remember that girl that full wanted to be you Ivan? from St George... what's her name....

Anonymous said...

Ivan, I understand what you're saying, but it doesn't change my point of view. As I said, I don't have any problem with kids that work hard and get the results. What I have a problem with is people with inside information about the actual test training kids specifically to pass the test. I know thats what happens. They are coached on the exact types of questions that are asked, and by the time they do the test, theys probably already been drilled on how to do every type of question they'll throw at you (and for that matter, there is a good chance the test has many of the exact same questions they've been studying from past papers).
If they were just getting straight up maths or english coaching with no pretense, thats fine with me, but thats not what goes on in most of these proliferating (mostly Chinese) coaching colleges, at least when it comes to the selective school entry test.
Having said that, I know there isnt much they can do to stop this, and even if they changed the format or style of the test, they would find a new way to rort it.